Yesterday I received a series of comments on my post from a doctor as Anonymous. I will refer to Anonymous doctor as AD in this post. AD, I hope you read this post and my response to your comments.
First and foremost, I am surprised and very appreciative that you have taken the time to comment on my blog. I understand that, as a practicing physician, you must be very busy and thus I thank you for taking time to contribute your insights and thoughts. I will re-post your comments below before I respond:
Our genetics course here is only 3-4 weeks long. Then it switches over to biochem for the remainder of the semester (until December). I fully understand and appreciate the importance of biochem, but in these precious 3-4 weeks I expected to learn genetics and not biochem, as I know biochem will shortly follow anyway. This has not happened. As far as "true genetics" (e.g. the inheritance patterns, genetic diseases, ELSI issues, etc) material goes, I have learned more in high school and undergrad compared to this course. It is my opinion that throughout my medical education there will never again come a point where the opportunity to learn about diseases from a purely genetics point-of-view will occur. To me, this (mini-)course is a missed opportunity to prime and sensitize med students to the emergent importance of genetics in medicine.
I do not believe a complete understanding of pathology is necessarily required in order to highlight the genetic components of diseases. I've taken courses before that have delved quite deeply into the genetics of sickle-cell anemia and Huntington's corea without more than the most basic understanding of their pathology. Pathology comes later to flesh out the details of diagnosis.
With respect to statistics and epidemiology, I was a grad student in Hospital & Molecular Epidemiology for a year before starting med school. Therefore I fully appreciate the importance and relevance of these subjects to clinical medicine. I am actually somewhat disappointed that my med school curriculum does not do much more than mention the most superficial aspects of these subjects. They are critical to evidence-based medicine and understanding the literature, so that each physician may make a critical judgment and opinion about whether the evidence is strong enough to affect his/her practice.
Back to the topic of genetics, in several of my public health courses, we had discussed at length the lack of genetics understanding most physicians possess and/or how they are learning/focusing on the "wrong" material. My genetic counseling friends lament how (many) doctors are not able to recognize what is a genetic disorder and what is not (especially with prenatal and pediatric genetic conditions), or attempt to order a genetic test without being able to understand the results. Many in my courses feel that physicians seem to dismiss the emergent importance of genetics in medicine, especially with the "promise" of personalized medicine on the horizon.
I do not know what to expect in regards to pharmacology. I will not take that course until next year. My friend at Case Western has lamented to me how she had to memorize a list of pain medications, blood pressure medications, and cholesterol medications (at the very least, the major name brands). I understand that each med school has a different way of teaching the same material, and when the time comes, I will likely call my pharmacy friend and ask her for help when studying pharmacology. Because that's what pharmacists are for (and she's pre-agreed to this). :)
While I agree with you that choice of specialty is personality-driven, I also believe it is also in part exposure to the field. Not many med students (that I've spoken to) know that medical genetics is an option. Other more "obscure" specialties (e.g. infectious disease, community health) aren't very well highlighted during rotations. Without exposure, how can a med student know what options there are? Furthermore, I also believe the way a course is taught does impact a med student's decision to pursue a particular specialty. If you're not interested in only looking at the heart, you won't be a cardiologist. If you suck at dissection in anatomy, you should not be a surgeon. Perhaps that's a gross oversimplication.
The curious thing about clinical human anatomy is that, on the first day, we were subjected to a 2-hour long lecture on the ethics of cadavers and respect for them. We were actually warned to not allow anatomy to distance ourselves from our future patients, but rather to bring us closer to them (I'm not exactly sure how this would work). It is interesting, however, that many mainstream media report how patients actually abhor doctors who view them with dispassionate interest - who view patients more as a "bag of symptoms" rather than as a holistic individual. We've been told, time and time again (and just within this last week), how patients don't care how much a doctor knows but rather how much a doctor cares. Call me idealistic (and I suppose I am, for being just a lowly M1), but I would like to believe there is a way to balance the "caring" side with the objective side of clinical medicine.
As for memorizing the brachial plexus, I don't have a choice. It will be on my exam (in quite a bit more detail than I'd like, I imagine) in a few weeks. Besides, I don't think anatomy's stupid. It's good to know where the major things are. I've heard that other med schools do less dissection work, as anatomy is a "dying art." That's rather unfortunate, in my opinion.
Finally, if you read this, thank you again for your comments. It would be interesting to read what you had to say about my previous posts, particularly the ones that relate to health and medicine. As it is, I understand you probably don't have time for that and so I truly do appreciate you taking the time to comment on my last post.
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Hi again AD! :) Thanks for commenting further in this post. I won't copy your text, as people should just refer to the comments section of this post below.
I would like to ask you a few questions (if you don't mind answering, hopefully you read this): is it possible to do a fellowship in medical genetics after doing residency in pediatrics? Or is the only "route" to medical genetics through internal medicine? And what kind of physician are you?
I took an embryology course in undergrad and actually really enjoyed it. Even some people in the biology department lament at the "death" of embryology, as developmental biology seems to have overshadowed it. It's a little saddening.
I'm really glad you brought up that point about pharmacists. My friend who's finishing up pharmacy school is actually most interested in hospital pharmacy (I think that's what it's called), where they follow doctors and residents as a part of a team and advise them on which drugs the patient should take. I'm not sure if it's everywhere, but just there seems to be a culture shift in the way medicine is taught and practiced, there seems to be a cultural shift within pharmacy as well. So hopefully by the time I'm done with residency (and fellowship?) I will be able to defer to pharmacists.
I'm also glad you pointed out how it's okay to say "I don't know." I had been wondering/worrying about that aspect of medical culture. I've read (and heard) how mortally dangerous it can be for doctors to either admit fault or that they don't know, for malpractice reasons. Of course, as a fledgling M1 I don't know much in such matters, but I've never had the ego to not say "I don't know" when I truly didn't (in fact, I'm quite uncomfortable giving advice/info that I'm unsure about). My genetic counseling friend refers to that tendency as evidence for my "extensive" scientific background, lol.
Lastly, I have not read The House of God but I fully intend to over winter break. My brother read it in one of his freshman seminars and I've heard many good things about that book. So it's about time that I read it. A book I have read and enjoyed was The Spirit Catches You And You Fall Down.
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First and foremost, I am surprised and very appreciative that you have taken the time to comment on my blog. I understand that, as a practicing physician, you must be very busy and thus I thank you for taking time to contribute your insights and thoughts. I will re-post your comments below before I respond:
OK, I've refrained from commenting in the past, but I simply have to do so now.There are several things I would like to address and clarify. My aim is to neither challenge nor dismiss your views, as it is very valuable to me to have someone who's "been there done that" to comment. I would simply like to elaborate where I am coming from.
I'm a physician, in practice. I understand your skepticism at the biochemical info, but like it or not, you will use it--more often than you can imagine. Especially once you're out of medical school. I suggest you learn it well now, because you will never again have the kind of time you now have to do so.
As for the inheritance patterns and the like, you won't know enough medicine to be able to understand such material until you're almost through your second year. Some schools start teaching this stuff in first year, but it's most schools' experience that few student can assimilate the information until they have a fair bit of pathology under their belts. For example, there's a lot more to sickle cell than just that the cells sickle in hypoxic conditions. No doubt, you'll argue that statistics isn't worth your time either, and epidemiology is a bore--though it will determine much if not most of how you will practice and be compensated. The pharmacology course won't cover drugs, because you really can not learn them until you're on the wards and in the clinic. I think U of Penn tried to bring drugs into pharmacology several years ago for about 3 classes, and it was little short of a disaster. As for why few med students go into genetics, it isn't a function of the way the material is taught. (Don't believe me if you don't want to, but that's the reality. Choice of speciality is entirely personality driven.)
As for Gross, ancient is good. Those are the folks who really know the material cold. And that's what you need during the dissection. As for the formaldehyde, you will survive. Everyone does. And it beats being exposed to some undiagnosed virus, which is the alternative.
The dissection may seem inhuman (and inhumane), but the reality is that the first step of becoming a physician is learning to detach yourself from your patients. Empathy is good, for sure, but unless one can objectively assess what's going on in a given situation, one is set up for failure as a physician. As you assemble the "pieces" back together when you get to the wards, you'll begin to look at your patients as people, but you'll also be able to take a step and figure out what's going on with them in a dispassionate way. That may sound cruel or like gobbly-gook, but it is what happens, either in medical school or, for some, during their internship. And it DOES happen.
And if you really think I'm full of it and have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about (and I remember thinking exactly the same as you), go volunteer as a med student in the ER for a weekend, or even just a Friday or Saturday night (as in when the Knife and Gun Club has its meetings/activities). Objective observation is often critical for saving someone's life, or at least making certain that nothing has been missed.
Enjoy this year. You'll never have the opportunity to learn this material the way you do now. Though I wouldn't want to go through med school again (three relationships lost in the first year alone), I'd do a lot to have the opportunity to learn that material again.
Oh, and with regard to the wasted info they're making you learn, hey, 50% of what you learn in med school will be out of date if not outrightly wrong within 5 years of your graduation. Which 50%? That's something no one knows.
Oh, one more thing--memorize the brachial plexus. It seems stupid to do so, but that shake one of your classmates' hands and ask them to pretend they lost innervation (through a lesion of the plexus) of one or two specific muscles. Then use what you memorized to figure out where the injury took place. Even with CT scans, knowing how to diagnose a neural injury based on simple things like where an injury took place in the plexus is quite important.
Our genetics course here is only 3-4 weeks long. Then it switches over to biochem for the remainder of the semester (until December). I fully understand and appreciate the importance of biochem, but in these precious 3-4 weeks I expected to learn genetics and not biochem, as I know biochem will shortly follow anyway. This has not happened. As far as "true genetics" (e.g. the inheritance patterns, genetic diseases, ELSI issues, etc) material goes, I have learned more in high school and undergrad compared to this course. It is my opinion that throughout my medical education there will never again come a point where the opportunity to learn about diseases from a purely genetics point-of-view will occur. To me, this (mini-)course is a missed opportunity to prime and sensitize med students to the emergent importance of genetics in medicine.
I do not believe a complete understanding of pathology is necessarily required in order to highlight the genetic components of diseases. I've taken courses before that have delved quite deeply into the genetics of sickle-cell anemia and Huntington's corea without more than the most basic understanding of their pathology. Pathology comes later to flesh out the details of diagnosis.
With respect to statistics and epidemiology, I was a grad student in Hospital & Molecular Epidemiology for a year before starting med school. Therefore I fully appreciate the importance and relevance of these subjects to clinical medicine. I am actually somewhat disappointed that my med school curriculum does not do much more than mention the most superficial aspects of these subjects. They are critical to evidence-based medicine and understanding the literature, so that each physician may make a critical judgment and opinion about whether the evidence is strong enough to affect his/her practice.
Back to the topic of genetics, in several of my public health courses, we had discussed at length the lack of genetics understanding most physicians possess and/or how they are learning/focusing on the "wrong" material. My genetic counseling friends lament how (many) doctors are not able to recognize what is a genetic disorder and what is not (especially with prenatal and pediatric genetic conditions), or attempt to order a genetic test without being able to understand the results. Many in my courses feel that physicians seem to dismiss the emergent importance of genetics in medicine, especially with the "promise" of personalized medicine on the horizon.
I do not know what to expect in regards to pharmacology. I will not take that course until next year. My friend at Case Western has lamented to me how she had to memorize a list of pain medications, blood pressure medications, and cholesterol medications (at the very least, the major name brands). I understand that each med school has a different way of teaching the same material, and when the time comes, I will likely call my pharmacy friend and ask her for help when studying pharmacology. Because that's what pharmacists are for (and she's pre-agreed to this). :)
While I agree with you that choice of specialty is personality-driven, I also believe it is also in part exposure to the field. Not many med students (that I've spoken to) know that medical genetics is an option. Other more "obscure" specialties (e.g. infectious disease, community health) aren't very well highlighted during rotations. Without exposure, how can a med student know what options there are? Furthermore, I also believe the way a course is taught does impact a med student's decision to pursue a particular specialty. If you're not interested in only looking at the heart, you won't be a cardiologist. If you suck at dissection in anatomy, you should not be a surgeon. Perhaps that's a gross oversimplication.
The curious thing about clinical human anatomy is that, on the first day, we were subjected to a 2-hour long lecture on the ethics of cadavers and respect for them. We were actually warned to not allow anatomy to distance ourselves from our future patients, but rather to bring us closer to them (I'm not exactly sure how this would work). It is interesting, however, that many mainstream media report how patients actually abhor doctors who view them with dispassionate interest - who view patients more as a "bag of symptoms" rather than as a holistic individual. We've been told, time and time again (and just within this last week), how patients don't care how much a doctor knows but rather how much a doctor cares. Call me idealistic (and I suppose I am, for being just a lowly M1), but I would like to believe there is a way to balance the "caring" side with the objective side of clinical medicine.
As for memorizing the brachial plexus, I don't have a choice. It will be on my exam (in quite a bit more detail than I'd like, I imagine) in a few weeks. Besides, I don't think anatomy's stupid. It's good to know where the major things are. I've heard that other med schools do less dissection work, as anatomy is a "dying art." That's rather unfortunate, in my opinion.
Finally, if you read this, thank you again for your comments. It would be interesting to read what you had to say about my previous posts, particularly the ones that relate to health and medicine. As it is, I understand you probably don't have time for that and so I truly do appreciate you taking the time to comment on my last post.
---Edit---
Hi again AD! :) Thanks for commenting further in this post. I won't copy your text, as people should just refer to the comments section of this post below.
I would like to ask you a few questions (if you don't mind answering, hopefully you read this): is it possible to do a fellowship in medical genetics after doing residency in pediatrics? Or is the only "route" to medical genetics through internal medicine? And what kind of physician are you?
I took an embryology course in undergrad and actually really enjoyed it. Even some people in the biology department lament at the "death" of embryology, as developmental biology seems to have overshadowed it. It's a little saddening.
I'm really glad you brought up that point about pharmacists. My friend who's finishing up pharmacy school is actually most interested in hospital pharmacy (I think that's what it's called), where they follow doctors and residents as a part of a team and advise them on which drugs the patient should take. I'm not sure if it's everywhere, but just there seems to be a culture shift in the way medicine is taught and practiced, there seems to be a cultural shift within pharmacy as well. So hopefully by the time I'm done with residency (and fellowship?) I will be able to defer to pharmacists.
I'm also glad you pointed out how it's okay to say "I don't know." I had been wondering/worrying about that aspect of medical culture. I've read (and heard) how mortally dangerous it can be for doctors to either admit fault or that they don't know, for malpractice reasons. Of course, as a fledgling M1 I don't know much in such matters, but I've never had the ego to not say "I don't know" when I truly didn't (in fact, I'm quite uncomfortable giving advice/info that I'm unsure about). My genetic counseling friend refers to that tendency as evidence for my "extensive" scientific background, lol.
Lastly, I have not read The House of God but I fully intend to over winter break. My brother read it in one of his freshman seminars and I've heard many good things about that book. So it's about time that I read it. A book I have read and enjoyed was The Spirit Catches You And You Fall Down.
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